Interview with Brad Brooks (Singer of MC5)

Heavy Lifting is probably the last MC5 album, since all original members are dead now. Guitarist Wayne Kramer and drummer Dennis Thompson died last year, short before the release of the album (not to mention their Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction). Brad Brooks, who sang on it and co-wrote 10 of the 13 tracks with Kramer talks in this interview about his friendship with Kramer, playing with Slash, Tom Morello, Vernon Reid, Steve Salas, Don Was and legendary producer Bob Ezrin (Alice Cooper, Deep Purple, Pink Floyd), politics, cancer, the openness of Heavy Lifting, feeling free as a singer and his own solo career.

MC5: 

Robert Pally: How did you become the singer of MC5? 

Brad Brooks: Wayne and I met on April 30th in 2019 when I was asked to sing some Jeff Buckley songs for a show that a mutual friend was putting on in celebration of a graphic novel she had written called «Grace» and Wayne was a special guest and I was asked to sing some songs with him, which turned out to be an amazing experience as well as his 70th birthday. After the show we got to talking and he’s such a genuine person and the more we talked, the more we realized that we had a lot in common. Becoming Dads at an older age, and also, I had mentioned that I had gone through throat cancer about 3 years before, and as I mentioned that, he turns his neck around and shows me the same fucking scar. He was in the middle of day 4 of radiation, and at that moment we forged a strong bond as I was his “pick me up” whenever he was feeling down, or just needed someone to talk to about it. Although our type of throat cancer has a high success rate, you lose a lot of weight as its sun burning the inside and outside of your neck and throat and you can’t eat and can barely drink anything. It’s pretty horrific, especially for someone who sings, which he also did. So, he would call me up every couple of weeks and we would talk about what’s going on, and what worked, or didn’t work for me, and that’s how we met. It also helped me to talk about it too because there’s such a mental side to dealing with any cancer, and I also needed someone to talk to about it that understood and that I could trust. 

As time went on during Covid we would Zoom or FaceTime and our families also became close as everyone was trying to figure out how to navigate our lives, especially with kids. It wasn’t till around November of 2020 that we talked about trying to write together. Wayne had helped me get the word out about my record «God Save The City» and so he knew what I was capable of, but it wasn’t till then that he started sending me some music to write lyrics and sing melodies to. He told me «my therapist says I need to get back to writing, and I’ve chosen you» which was amazing and exciting as we had been talking about music a lot and I realized that I had an incredible resource to talk to about all types of music, since the MC5 literally played with all the greats during their time. I also had some lyrics that I would send him, and then he would send back some music and melody ideas and that’s how we started. Most of it long distance but later on in person. It was incredibly fun and we were literally just writing for the sake of creativity and just trying to make each other happy, but also wanting it to be great. Wayne had also written a movie sketch called «Heavy Lifting» that was a crime caper about a «failed criminal» who was also a screen writer, who later directs a movie where in the movie, he actually commits the crime of stealing an armored car. Thus «Heavy Lifting». So, we were writing for these characters, but also writing about the world that was going insane during Covid, as well as the insurrection on Jan 6th in the US («Barbarians At The Gate»), the homeless situation during Covid out here in Oakland («Change No Change») the murder of George Floyd and the rise of Trumpism which has unfortunately returned.

Robert Pally: What changed that for you, positive / negative?

Brad Brooks: The experience was really the gift of a life time in that Wayne trusted me to go on this ride with him and that we created these things out of thin air during a time of turmoil in the world. Also adding legendary producer Bob Ezrin (who was amazing and has been really good to me) was another masterstroke and by November of 2021 we had fifteen songs and we were in the studio recording the basics tracks with Abe Laboriel on drums and Don Was on bass at Dave Way’s place called «The Way Station» and it became this crazy adventure that I got to help create with Wayne. Later on, it just kept growing with this incredible array of folks that Wayne had a connection to (Tom Morello, Vernon Reid, Slash, Tim McIrath, William Duvall, Jill Sobule, Joe Berry) including 2 songs with Dennis Thompson from the original 5. There also were a couple of songs with the touring band that Wayne had put together in May of 2022, the «We Are All MC5» band with me singing lead vocals on with Steve Salas, Vicki Randle, Winston Watson. So, it was this crazy ride that’s now very bittersweet without Wayne around.   

Robert Pally: Your own music sounds different to the music of MC5. How easy / difficult was it for you to adapt / getting into their style?

Brad Brooks: I’ve always been a rock & roll soul singer at heart and in my earlier writing style before I ventured out on my own, it was writing with bands and other peoples music that was much more guitar based, so there wasn’t much to adapt to other than just listening to Wayne’s excellent playing, letting it out, and telling the truth in a true testimonial style which is kinda what I’ve always done. But I will say writing with Wayne and his playing was just on another level and he was great in the studio on his own and we made really good demos of everything before recording with the band. Wayne was also an excellent bass player with a great feel, so some of those demos made the record, much to Bob’s credit as well. Bob has a very innate way of knowing when to push an idea further, whether it’s a rewrite of lyrics or when it feels like it’s at its peak. 

Robert Pally: What did MC5 mean to you before you became their singer?

Brad Brooks: I was aware of the MC5 and their music and how they impacted so many bands but I wasn’t a super fan, but I was a fan, and appreciated their commitment to the times they documented as well as the power and soul of the music. The connection that they had with the audience and some of their inspirations is something that I later learned about and I realized that within my friendship with Wayne that I had a great opportunity to find out more about his and their story which is fascinating and inspiring. I loved talking to him about the other guys in the MC5 and it was always apparent that he missed those guys and the brotherhood that they had.  They went through so much in a short period of time and they started out super young. Also, because they played with some of the greatest bands in Rock n Roll it was fun to ask Wayne about all that history. But I do want to add that Wayne wasn’t a person who ever really lived in the past. He was a very forward thinker and seeker and I just appreciated his views on life, and I really miss that about him. 

Robert Pally: You co-wrote 10 of the 13 tracks on «Heavy Lifting» with Wayne Kramer. How was it to work with him?

Brad Brooks: Working with Wayne was really just such a fun experience. He was so open to anything that I wanted to try and we made sure that we were always completely honest with each other about how we felt about it. We figured if we liked it, then we were on the right track. There was no pressure as we were making it, because the world had shut down over Covid so we were really just trying to stay creative and needed to be creative for our own sanity, and trying to make each other happy. I was very lucky that he chose me and it felt like a great extension of our friendship and our shared cancer brotherhood to be able to bounce ideas off each other, and the tunes and the process just kept getting better and better as we went. Wayne was really great in studio and we made really good demos of the tracks, some of which made it onto «Heavy Lifting».

Robert Pally: Which song was the most fun to record?

Brad Brooks: The most fun song for me personally was probably «I Am The Fun (The Phoney)» because it had this great groove and Wayne had called the music for it «Ohio Players» so we were digging into that vibe as well as Parliament/Funkadelic which is a band that we both loved. I also had my young kids screaming and hollering in the beginning of the song because I thought that every great Bob Ezrin recorded needed to have kids on it like he had done with Alice Cooper, Pink Floyd and also on Lou Reed’s “Berlin” record. So, I got a kick out of having them on there as well as writing in this persona who is completely out of his mind and full of himself, yet also has this tiny bit of self-awareness that maybe I am full of shit but no one seems to care, so on with the show. I was also thinking about Trump and Elon Musk, and these egos in full bloom without any self-awareness or care for anyone else. But the character in this song has a little bit of self-awareness and it’s also a very kinda LA sort of party crasher entitlement rock star thing with the lyric «I could destroy everything in this room. Maybe the arrogance could swallow the gloom, I got attention deficit reply’s. I gotta a smile that’s on the edge of a lie».   

Robert Pally: MC5 was in its early days also a political band. Does this also shine through on «Heavy Lifting»? If yes, how and where?

Brad Brooks: There is a lot of politics in this record as he and I were always talking about what was happening in the world with the rise of Trumpism and the insurrection with «Barbarians At The Gate» as I’ve mentioned. The inability to find the truth even if you see it with your own eyes in «Can’t Be Found». The homeless situation in the US and particularly in Oakland, CA in the song «Change No Change» as well as the song «Blind Eye». Lyrically I was always trying to talk about NOW and what we were seeing which was also police brutality and the murder of George Floyd and the worlds reaction to that, as well as Covid shutting everything down. It really was a crazy time in hindsight and we’re entering another dark time which could be even worse, so these songs need to live on and be out there in the world more than ever.  

Robert Pally: What is your favorite song on «Heavy Lifting» and why?

Brad Brooks: Probably «Barbarians At The Gate» as Wayne had written the music and it was right after the insurrection here in the US. I want to say like two or three days, and we were both talking about it and really moved by it and it brought him to tears, as we both just couldn’t believe it. Wayne was such a true American and I learned a lot from him, and he was just a person who really loved his country, but he also knew the bad side of US power as the MC5 had literally been wire taped back in the day and had to fight it to the end. Eventually that case kinda helped to take Nixon down back in the day and it’s a crazy story. So, for us to watch it happen and for me to try and describe it was really powerful and liberating, but now everyone has been pardoned so it’s all fucked up again. It’s basically about stealing, stealing the election, stealing in general. So, the lyrics are all just about that day. The running up the steps, blood coming out of their eyes, and the music really felt to me like something close to what the 5 would have done. Also, I have to say that having Abe Laboriel Jr, Don & Wayne play together was so amazing to watch, so that one is one of my faves.

Robert Pally: My favorite song is «Can’t Be Found». What inspired it?

Brad Brooks: This was like one of the first four things of music that Wayne sent me and that riff was just so driving. It’s a song that makes you wanna drive faster which is very Detroit. I kept trying to figure out what I was going to do with it but the lyric «Can’t Be Found» was always in there from the get-go. In fact, that’s all that I had for a while. Then I started thinking about just what the fuck is going on in the world right now and has everyone gone mad? I wanted it to be about what was going on, and also what is the truth anymore? If I see it with my own eyes, is it for real? Like what’s going to be fucking real anymore? If you see it nowadays is it real?  if you hear it, is it for real? So, I was writing “give me understanding in a world that’s angry, can’t be found.” It’s probably more from a central point of view politically than a left or right? Everything’s fucked up. Nobody has a clue what the truth is and it’s just elusive but God damn it, I have to continue on and I have to decipher what is the truth. But it’s definitely got some politics in it. «The rungs of deception, the tongues of dissent. Nobody wants to listen anymore, everybody’s got the changes and laws and fear, I can’t decide what the fuck is going on anymore but we’re gonna survive. We can feel alive.» And so, I think from a lyrical standpoint it feels very much like the times then, and the times now unfortunately.  Also, because Dennis was on it, there’s a couple lines that I was thinking about him a little bit. There was one that’s like «I’ve been holding onto things way too long in this dirty town. Old disappointments, old wrongs, no changing it now. Every time I reach for the golden ring can’t be found. Nothing left to do except to dance and sing as it’s burning down.» And I was thinking about Wayne too. I was thinking about those guys just kind of being able to «let’s just let it go». Like life is too short ya know.

Robert Pally: Also «Blessed Release» stands out. The scratchy riffs, the beats and the weird Punk interlude at the end. How came this song together?

Brad Brooks: So, this was another one where Wayne sent the music and it just was so cool and different to me. He and I both didn’t like repeating ourselves and it was a blast to write something like this. It reminded me of like a Prince song or when Mick Jagger would sing falsetto and there was some sex involved. «Blessed Release» can also have a sexual connotation, but it also is a term for dying. You’re able to have a «blessed release» when you pass away. The title actually came from Bob Ezrin as I had titled it «Whip Smart Release» when we first demoed it, but I like the change he came up with. We fucking loved it and it was really fun and so different. It was really one our favorite’s when we were writing. I made up the lyrics as I was singing it and it came really fast. I wasn’t thinking about it too much. It was this stream of consciousness dance song with Wayne’s guitar on it and he did some cool stuff. When we tracked a live version of it, it just didn’t quite have the same feel, so Bob smartly took some of the ending of the live version and popped it on there at the end to give it this crazy falling apart punk energy, but most of it is the demo that Wayne and I did.

Robert Pally: «Heavy Lifting» is musically pretty wide open. How come? 

Brad Brooks: I think it really just stemmed from us not having any limitations at all and that we both liked a wide variety of music. I always felt that I could add something different and have a different perspective to what he was doing, and I think he felt the same about me and my writing. We fit together really well and because I’m more of a rock n roll soul singer, and less of a punk screamer, I think that appealed to him. If you listen to Wayne’s solo records over the years, he covered an amazing amount of ground. Yes, he could rip on guitar when needed, his rhythm playing was off the charts, he was also a good bass player, but he was always deep into the outer limits of jazz and he could really follow anyone so we never wanted to have any limits to any styles. We knew that it would be heavy for the most part but it was really just enjoying the creative process and not thinking about what it was gonna be. Just making art. It wasn’t till after we’d written the 15 songs that it became an MC5 record.

Robert Pally: What is the song «Change no change» about?

Brad Brooks: So, Wayne had sent me the music for this one and I don’t know whether he had it from another project that he had been working on but he sent it to me, and we were talking about the song «Trouble Man» by Marvin Gaye. So, I just started thinking about it in those terms and I always would go running around Lake Merritt in Oakland CA where I lived, and to me that’s like the heart of Oakland. It’s such a melting pot and one of my favorite places to go to. So, during Covid there was a lot of homeless encampments popping up and Covid really just turned Oakland on its head and it was heartbreaking to see. I was just feeling it and it’s something that I’ve always kinda written about in my own music. So, I was really trying to describe that desperation and how people somehow survive but that nothing ever changes no matter how much money they throw at it and the fact that these things keep happening and they’re not changing. They’re throwing money at it, they’re moving people around, they’re not really giving people any help or hope.  I was also thinking about the fact that with all the racial tension too that was going around, we’re just not seeing each other anymore as human beings.

Robert Pally: Was it a surprise for you when Wayne died, or did you see it coming?

Brad Brooks: Everyone was completely shocked by Wayne’s passing and in late 2023 he was doing interviews and talking about it coming out in mid 2024 and us touring behind it. The plan was for us to start rehearsing in late January of 2024, but he called me on January 15th and told me that he had pancreatic cancer and my heart just sank because I knew that wasn’t a good type to get. So, when he told me, all I wanted was for him to get as much time with his family as possible and I wanted to keep his spirits up and remind him that he had beaten cancer before and that there are all kinds of new trials coming out. I told him that I’d come out and see him and help take him to appointments if the family needed it, but it progressed so fast that he was gone by Feb 2nd and it’s really been difficult losing him ever since. Not because of the work that we did, but because of the man that he was and the impact that he had not only on my life but a lot of others through his work with Jail Guitar Doors and the Capo Center in LA. He was an incredibly humble and truly original dude who was also a lot of fun to be around. We laughed a lot, he had a great laugh and was an amazing Dad, husband, activist, musician and human being and the world could really use his spirit as we speak.   

Robert Pally: Your engagement as the singer of MC5 did definitely boosted your own career. Are you disappointed that it ended so soon?

Brad Brooks: I don’t think disappointed is the right word because the process and making it with someone whom I loved dearly and who was a close friend is what I hold onto, and that gift, is something that I’ll always be grateful for. So, I really stay in gratitude for Wayne trusting me to write with him and then later touring with him along with Stevie Salas, Vicki Randle & Winston Watson. I wish that it hadn’t ended of course because the touring band was also a joy to play with and I never felt more free as a singer singing those MC5 classic tunes and we were really starting to catch fire in 2022 which was when the record was supposed to come out. Honestly, I just wish that Wayne was around not only for his family but also because he was so happy with this record and we had plans to play out a good amount and add some of the new songs to the set. He would have been having a ball because his playing on this record is bad ass. Much like the man!  

Robert Pally: With Wayne Kramer and drummer Dennis Thompson died the last original members of MC5. What happens now with MC5?

Brad Brooks: Well sadly there will never be another MC5 and it’s just crushing to even acknowledge that because everyone passed away last year. I’m just so grateful and glad that Dennis Thompson got to be on this record and what an honor for me to be part of that opportunity. I don’t ever take it for granted and I do think that the MC5 spirit does burn in thousands of bands who are willing to stick their neck out for what they believe and fight for the people. The MC5 was always «the people’s band» in Detroit and the world, so to me that’s the legacy of the original 5 which is their spirit, and you can feel it in their music and hear it in Rob Tyner’s voice and the unbridled reckless energy that they all had. As for «Heavy Lifting» and what happens, I honestly don’t know. It would be nice to somehow play again with the band that Wayne put together which was the «We Are All MC5» band in 2022 along with some special guests who meant a lot to Wayne, but it would have to be done in the right way, with the right spirit. It would be great for these songs to live on in a «live» fashion and also to play some of the songs that Wayne and I wrote on «Heavy Lifting». I do know that when we toured out with Wayne, that none of the shows felt like any sort of nostalgia for the past, because the words and the power of that music is still so relevant to the world we live in now. But I honestly don’t know.  

Brooks on Brooks:

Robert Pally: In what way was music important in your family?

Brad Brooks: I think music and records were always around in our family and important but no one seemed to take an interest in really doing it other than me, and when I started I wasn’t very good. Later on, I found that I had an Aunt who was my Grandmothers sister who was an opera singer but it wasn’t encouraged. I did always know that I wanted to sing and I would always be running around the house mouthing the words to whatever was on the radio or TV at the time. So, it was always around. My folks were into Elvis, Johnny Cash, Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass so we had those records and growing up in Tucson Arizona there was always a lot of Latin & Mariachi music around. My Dad was a hotel manager in Tucson and once Johnny Cash stayed for about a month as he was filming «The Johnny Cash Show» at Old Tucson which was a movie studio that primarily shot cowboy western movies. So, one night he played in the little lounge where they used to have music and my mom got to see him, and then later when he and his crew left, they gave my Dad a plaque that said «With Sincere Thanks The Johnny Cash Show 1970-71» which I still have. Kinda shows ya what a classy dude Johnny was. So, music was all around and before living in Tucson I was in kindergarten through 2nd grade in Memphis and I remember a lot of music from 1967-69.

Robert Pally: Music changed my life by………..?

Brad Brooks: …..By literally giving me a voice to express what I see, feel and hear in the world. It’s given me my mental health because I have to be creative and when I’m not, I’m unfortunately not very happy which isn’t always that healthy for myself or those around me, but it also drives me to continue to try and get better and over the years I’ve learned to add «joy» to that equation. I learned that from a good friend Vicki Randle (who was in the band with Wayne and I) about playing with joy and gratitude, so music continues to bring that to me and I’m grateful for the opportunity to do it at all after my throat cancer episode. Also, with the way the world is heading in the US people are going need to use their voices and speak their truth more than ever. We are entering a dark time out here already and music will always have the power to change the world in my opinion and we’re gonna need it, and need to use it.

Robert Pally: What was the first song you really loved and why?

Brad Brooks: I can’t remember the first song that I really loved but I do remember as a kid growing up in Memphis Tennessee and hearing a lot of gospel music. I seem to remember a lot of music from 1967-69 as mentioned like Aretha Franklin, Motown, The Box Tops (from Memphis), The Doors, The Rascals, early Bee Gees, The Monkees and of course Elvis. Then later on punk rock took over my life and that was an incredibly exciting time to be coming of age in and starting my musical journey in 1980.  One funny note is that I went to Graceland Elementary School in 2nd grade which was right behind Elvis’ Graceland. You used to be able to see his horses from the school and always around Christmas you could drive through the gates and see all the Christmas lights that they had set up around the property.

Robert Pally: What was the first band you played in? What kind of music did you play?

Brad Brooks: It was a band from Tucson that will remain nameless but I was heavily influenced by Jim Morrison so I had to have some leather pants. The first move/kick I ever made, I ripped out the pants and the rest is history. 

Robert Pally: What was the first song you wrote and what was it about?

Brad Brooks: I have no idea! When I started writing though I was always collaborating and writing the words and melodies to other people’s music so it was probably about a girl, and a girl that I couldn’t get. It was only later when I started learning to play guitar & piano that I really started writing my own songs, but that wasn’t till much later when I started making my own records. 

Robert Pally: Why did you wanna become a musician?

Brad Brooks: I don’t know why I wanted to be one, I just always knew that I wanted to be one, and had no idea how or what it meant. I wanted to sing, scream & shout and I loved how that felt and still feels. Sometimes there’s nothing more alive in your soul than to sing something that you feel and mean, and I have to say that singing those MC5 songs, writing the new ones, and touring with Wayne, I never felt more free as a singer or musician in my life. Which makes it all extremely bittersweet but as I’ve mentioned, I’m so glad for the opportunity and how it felt. 

Robert Pally: Which of your 4 solo albums (Sanctified Into Astroglide, Spill Collateral Love, Harmony Of Passing Light, God Save The City) is your favorite one and why?

Brad Brooks: I honestly feel like with the first two that I was really just trying to find my own style and figuring out how to be a solo artist and also finding out who wanted to go along for the ride. So, it was a lot of experimentation and learning how to communicate what I was hearing but also letting the players on the records do what they did best. So that was a process, but the last 2 records («Harmony Of Passing Light» & «God Save The City») are my favorites because they feel like I figured something out and I think they’re cohesive and tell a story as well as some of my best work. I started writing more personally and less about trying to disguise things and that was important and more honest. Also, both of the bands that played with me on those are some badasses and put their hearts and soul into it.

Robert Pally: What important things have you learned as a solo artist?

Brad Brooks: To never quit! I feel like I became a solo artist out of necessity and I never wanted to be in another band that was going to quit so that was my first lesson. Of course, it also means that you are doing most of it by yourself which is difficult more on the business end than anything else, but you also have complete control which is great creatively. I also always feel Ike there’s more to learn and it’s an evolving lesson. I’ve learned the most from failures and hopefully that allowed me to be more fearless about what I’m saying. 

Robert Pally:  What elements must a good pop / rock song have for you?

Brad Brooks: Well it has to make you wanna shake your ass, or drive faster, and if it says something important or has some real wisdom in it, then that’s the most exciting to me. I don’t like formula’s in music. I like it to come from a real place.

Robert Pally: What means success to you?

Brad Brooks: I feel like success is being able to make music the way that you want and being creative in new and interesting ways. I don’t like to copy myself or be formulaic in my songwriting. I’m always excited by writing something that I’ve never written before or exploring a new type of way to say something. Making a living playing music is extremely hard and for me it takes all forms of performing to allow me that freedom. 

Robert Pally: In what way will or could the work with MC5 / Wayne Kramer influence a possible new solo album?

Brad Brooks: Well Wayne influenced and inspired me as a person the most and I think about him just about every day. He was such a good Dad, husband, activist, friend, musician and that’s what I’ll always admire and aspire to be in the end. The music will be a byproduct of the whole experience from being with Wayne and also getting to sing the MC5 catalogue. 

I’ve learned so much about myself in working with Wayne as well as Bob Ezrin that I will for sure be influenced by both of them. Wayne and I talked a lot about music and life and he was a very practical and pragmatic person, in that he had this innate ability to break things down that inspired you. Musically I’m hoping that the next record I make will have some of that spirit of the 5 but I also have to be myself, and at heart I’m a rock n roll soul singer and that will continue. I do want to add that working with Bob Ezrin also will have a big influence on my next record because of some of the lessons I learned with him that I still carry with me. Most importantly is to be clear and direct lyrically. Not necessarily to spell it all out, but to be direct and about NOW! There’s so much fucked up shit already this year to write about and I don’t plan on sitting on the sidelines and just hoping things will change. It’s gonna take action and I wanna document the truth.

 

Discography:

MC5:

-Kick Out the Jams (1969)

-Back in the USA (1970)

-High Time (1971)

-Heavy Lifting (2024)

 

Brad Brooks:

-Sanctified Into Astroglide (2000)

-Spill Collateral Love (2007)

-Harmony Of Passing Light (2012)

-God Save The City (2020)